thanate | do salamanders get lonely?

So as I occasinally whine about but never actually make a sufficient effort to change, I never actually talk to my friends when they're not around. Except for sometimes over e-mail, but not even so much then, and I've given up on most of them unless I have something actual to say (and when does that happen?) because they don't answer e-mails any better than real letters. Or, at times, any better than I answer e-mails...

Anyway, I even when I do see people and therefore talk to them and stuff, there are extremely few people with whom I have a physical relationship. I mean, I hug people if they hug me and stuff like that (and with people I actually get on with I don't have a problem with this, although then there was the time I'm still convinced I horribly offended

dominyk by giving him the worst hug ever because I wasn't paying attention and then felt too dumb about it to apologize or anything...) but it doesn't occur to me to touch most people most of the time. It's possibly just lack of practice, really, and I'm a lot better about this than I used to be.

But then there are too many people who are friends of friends, who appear to think they're my friends too, when as far as I'm concerned I kind of know them and am not interested in being petted merely because our mutual friends are very physical people. And then one has to decide exactly where the line is that it's appropriate to say "hey, do you mind not touching me" versus just attempting to be polite about it.

And of course then the few people I do actually touch voluntarily I end up clinging to, not that that's necessarily a problem either, I guess. But still. And that's when they're actually there, that is... (sigh)

It's also possible that I'm just testy because there are getting to be too many people in my social circle who are very nice people and who I really don't like. Which makes me disinclined to spend time with the people I do like because I have to put up with them, too. And there was far too much sugar in the tea (since people kept adding it to the teapot) so now my head hurts, and I miss the

grauwulf, who is still far away and not here. Whine, whine. And I should be asleep because I have to get up early tomorrow, but my brain was too full of whining to shut off.

I go away & try that sleep thing again now. Maybe it will work better this time.

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If you're at one of our parties, it is always appropriate. It might be a good idea to explain why or that no offense is meant in the process, but since the parties generally have somewhat non-standard etiquettes, people should understand that personal boundaries are going to be different. And I mean this doubly if I am in fact the one doing it.

One of these days, we really should get a group together to publish a book on etiquette for the 21st century...

well, and usually it's not a problem, and I don't have problems with anybody who might be reading this, or I would have filtered it. I just feel awkward saying these things, because there isn't a really good established way of phrasing stuff so that there's a baseline for polite vs rude. And because I feel like when my lines are crossed, saying something is (to me) pointing out that someone else is being rude, even though no one else may feel that way about it.

And it's not as if I wouldn't say something if I feel really awkward or offended by something, it's more just that sometimes I get cranky about people pushing the edges of my personal space without any one thing being actually worth complaining about.

So you're complaining that you don't really have anything to complain about?
That is what Livejournal is for, I suppose...

Hmmm. We should all get together to write a "universal manners for the (post)modern world" book at some point. I've yet to find a manners book that will tell you it's polite to leer at people at a party where clothes are being removed, for example.

I'm complaining about the cumulative effect of something that I can't really do anything about because the causes all feel too small to address individually. The possible solutions appear to be being someone else, or not going to parties.

I think the concept of ettiquete in general starts with not being in such situations, or if necessary "politely" ignoring their existence. This would be your first problem... the roots of our current social code came in with the concept of ignoring things outside of it, not to mention "propriety" and the Regency or so crack down on sexual freedom in polite society. (look, we're not godless pleasure seekers like the french were, no need to get all revolutionary about it...)

actually, I think there are body-language things that tell people not to attempt snuggles that often work(not always, but) also, sitting in an individual chair rather than the couch that often gets turned into a snuggle pile.

Precisely why the etiquette needs to be written. As a godless pleasure-seeker, my society is not being addressed. *g*

The primate thing gets me, too. Sometimes I feel like people are trying to pick bugs out of my hair or something.... and while I don't want bugs in my hair, and while I like being touched by some people, the presumed relationship thing with almost totally random people is really weird.

I have found that, especially on repeat exposure, not responding to signs of incipient physical contact can deter touchy-feely people. Generally they have good enough people-reading skills to pick up on it, and if they don't, well, they probably know it and may not mind being told something bothers you if you're polite about it. Hard to say.

most people are ok with being told to go away; it's just always one of those things that I feel vaguely rude telling them about. And I'm never sure if it's the feeling that I'm being rude for saying so, or more of a feeling that I'm pointing out someone else's rudeness which I should be politely overlooking. And compounded by the fact that most of the people I want to say these things to (and the ones who don't just catch on quickly) are usually people I don't actually like that well, and so am a little more careful not to be rude to, because it's more likely to happen if I'm not paying attention.

Of course, this is still better than the random strangers who feel the need to come up and touch my hair in the grocery store. Note to self: never wear hair down in public again! Some lady walked by and felt the need to pet it by way of demonstration when she told me it was pretty. And I know I'm apparently a freak and the rest of the species actually likes people coming up and telling them how pretty they are or whatever, but that's just creepy.

So now I am pondering which statement would be more effective and which would be less offensive: "I'm sorry -- it really bothers me to have my hair touched" or "Please don't touch my hair; it bothers me." I'm sort of inclined towards the first for least offensive and am guessing they would be equally effective, but I don't really know. I guess because the first approach takes the onus of the bad interaction on to you while still yielding the benefit of them not touching.

Not that one should have to justify not being touched, just maybe it's easier to appease the offender a little in order to get them to go away faster. Like saying "thank you" to (intended) compliments while walking away...

Hmm, am now feeling the need to consult Miss Manners. Instead I am eating chocolate and not practicing. Bleh.

generally I do just say "thank you" in a semi-inaudible tone, and then go back to comparing olive prices (or whatever else I was doing)

But the problem with that one is that I am quite convinced it is rude of her to be touching a random stranger's hair without asking permission. And there isn't really an approved way to tell someone they've just done something out of line. If she had been very rude, I wouldn't have had a problem with being rude back and telling her she was offensive, but because it was just a fleeting touch and move on sort of thing, saying "thanks, but please don't touch it" would have been making too much of it, particularly since by the time I could have finished saying that, she was half way down the aisle.

I feel you on that random touching thing. Sometimes I feel bad because I don't really have a concrete explanation why I'm okay with some friends being all touchy-feely when I don't want other people to touch me at all even though they're just trying to be friendly.

Oh my god, do I hate people randomly touching my hair. Or people asking to "play with it" *shudder* Though I suspect I won't have that problem now that I've chopped it off.

Adding sugar to the teapot is a horrible thing to do. Ugh.

You didn't chop off more, did you?

I'm usually ok if people actually *ask.* It's the just casual assumption that they can go up and pet you because they want to.

do salamanders get lonely?

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